Presidential Race 08 Election 2008

[clarke]

Originally Posted by rich_one

this is what I am saying... you guys are flooding me with all of these accusations, which I am very sure you guys are well-versed with, but I am not able to find a lot of this info in concrete confirmations of this or that happened. in a way, we are saying the same thing, I guess. My only thing, I suppose, is that I thought if this kind of stuff were true, it WOULD be put out there with factual evidence... hell, by FOX or whatever. I don't care. but so far, its lots and lots of commentary. am I even saying this right? not sure...

Who is to say that the information out there about his decades old friendship with Bill Ayers is false? Who is to say that he was not raised in the muslim faith?

He says it? That makes it fact? Hey, everybody accused of something denies it until proven guilty. The fact that the media will not print anything against him, will not investigate, and even serves as his defender makes it easy for him. They even deny the stuff that he put in his autobiography that is damaging. This is ridiculous.

[clarke]

Originally Posted by rich_one

yes... actually, I did see that. it was really strange? I do not understand attempting fruadulent voter registrations... when you get to the polls to actually vote, you still have to show ID? I do not get it???

I have never been asked to show an ID. I think in some states (in the Southwest where you have a very high number of illegal immigrants, all with the same name) it was actually made illegal back before the last election. I don't even need an ID to register to vote. ANYBODY can vote. I may register my dog for the next election. Probably will be able to get away with it.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Dude, if there are negative points about a candidate then, how do you discuss it without bringing it up? Do you question the constant attacks on Palin and McCain? No offense Rich, but that is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard. What are you expecting, Obama to admit it? Why? Mainstream media WON'T address it. The only people with some integrity are at Fox. Yes, they lean right, but not as blatantly obviously as MSNBC. And they have NEVER been caught lying like CBS and CNN and NY Times and Washington Post, all media outlets that are left of Richard Simmons.

sorry you feel like that is a ridiculous argument. I did not say anything about any candidate admitting anything. I said if the news source is going to report, have some sort of sources to back it up... which is not what I had seen, until that article EO posted. so I am not sure where I impliled a candidate needs to have to admit it... I am afraid that one went over my head.

as for what you are saying about FOX, I say again... I have no specific issue with FOX. I do not trust any one news source. period. Fox included. along with the others. I believe all media are after the same thing... ratings. and again, I had no clue what you had said was even reported by Fox.

I respect your argument for Fox, but I am not attacking Fox.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Dude, if there are negative points about a candidate then, how do you discuss it without bringing it up? Do you question the constant attacks on Palin and McCain? No offense Rich, but that is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have heard. What are you expecting, Obama to admit it? Why? Mainstream media WON'T address it. The only people with some integrity are at Fox. Yes, they lean right, but not as blatantly obviously as MSNBC. And they have NEVER been caught lying like CBS and CNN and NY Times and Washington Post, all media outlets that are left of Richard Simmons.

oh... I forgot one... yes... I have questioned attacks on McCain. admittedly maybe no Palin so much, because I don't like her. but I like McCain, and have defended him also. burried somewhere around here. I don't wanna look for it though. feel free.

that said, I have a displeasure in who he chose as his running mate, and that is about the only thing I think I have said about him. I will not defend Palin. agree or disagree with a man, there are certain things you should not stand there and just bask in, happening at your rally. so to me, she crossed that line, and out of the 4 people involved in this, is the only one that crossed that line. and that is not even the only reason I do not like her. so I guess that is what it is.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

I agree with you about the crowd, but how is that McCain's or Palin's fault. I have not heard them egg them on.

it is not McCain's fault. but I do blame Palin. not for the people yelling it... but for her to stand there and do nothing... and actually smirk!

I have already gone on record in saying McCain was honorable in his reactions to people at his rally calling Obama an "arab" and expresseing terrorist type fear of him being President. unlike his running mate, McCain did not just stand there and bask in it... he corrected them, despite being booed, and that, to me, was honorable as hell.

I know you do not agree with this position, and I respect that. but I dislike Palin more than anyone else in this race... including Obama. that is just my opinion though. I know it is not yours. and I know my argument may come off as stupid or whatever. but I dislike her, and that plays a big role in me not voting McCain, because I honestly do not want her anywhere near the White House... probably much like you feel about Obama. so basically, if he chose a different running mate, I may feel a lot different. but, I also like most of the issues that Obama has expressed. but I say that, admitting that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer on some of it, so some of it for me is just does this sound like it will help me yes or no.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Stop looking at mainstream media for your information. They will not offer anything that will damn Obama. ACORN to them is as inoccuous as the local PTA or the Brownies.

clarke, I gotta take baby steps, man. I am trying to look at all streams of media. waht I am having trouble with dealing with is wading through the rhetoric of both.

look... I wish I could make you understand without sounding dumb to you, but I do not think I can. "news" articles are so easy to manipulate to lean towards the way that source leans... and I am finding that this is almost 100 percent of the time. I am not discrediting anyone... just saying what I feel like I am seeing. so hypothetically speaking, okay... CNN leans left. I do not trust a lot of what they report, because of that. rarely, if ever, do I see anything Positive-GOP there, accept for one of the writers there, I think, does a commentary column. same with FOX to me. it's not like I have gone there and read positive stuff on the DEMS. and I do plan to read that book you recommended, just have not had time yet. but the long and short of it is, I look at everyone with a slant. but you know what? its progress. I used to follow all things liberal, simply because I grew up thinking you vote Democrat, because my parents did that. I am growing, with you guys help... sure. but whatever you guys think I am supposed to feel, if I do get there, won't happen overnight maybe. at least I am asking questions now, and taking more time to have an informed opinion... and I think that is half the battle. I am definitely not trying to win an argument with you in this arena, because as I have said countless times already... I know that I can't do that.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Who is to say that the information out there about his decades old friendship with Bill Ayers is false? Who is to say that he was not raised in the muslim faith?

He says it? That makes it fact? Hey, everybody accused of something denies it until proven guilty. The fact that the media will not print anything against him, will not investigate, and even serves as his defender makes it easy for him. They even deny the stuff that he put in his autobiography that is damaging. This is ridiculous.

I'm sorry you feel this is ridiculous, clarke. as you indicated above, I live by the code innocent until proven guilty. that is what I was raised to believe in this country.

I am going to shut up, because clearly, aside from the fact I cannot win an argument with you on this... which is not what I am trying to do anyway... I am beginning to sound ridiculous to you.

so I will do what all dumb people who vote on a Democratic ticket do, and shut up and follow like the sheep I am.

I was just asking questions, so I can understand things better... and expressing my point of view of why and how, in an attempt to understand more. not be sarcastic at all, I am sorry it is not as cut and dried for me, as it is for everyone else here, it would seem.

[rich_one]

and clarke... it was not my intention to come off as ridiculous to you. I am just searching. and during this, I do still have my own opinions, even if they are silly or insufficient or whatever. I am not a political or financial efficiando... so it is easy for me to stupid here. but I do still have my own gut feelings and thought processes that I am obligated to follow, even after given advice, information, and such, by others. not saying you are denying me that... but just saying. I think I have taken this through all it can go, and I am certainly not trying to make it get all heated. so I am stepping away from it this subject for now. I appreciate the insighit from all of you though, even if it appears it ain't sinkin' in.

[loangod]

Posted: October 15
Updated: Today at 10:14 AM
Secret Service says "Kill him" allegation unfounded



By Andrew M. Seder aseder@timesleader.com
Staff Writer

SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.


The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Obama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him."
News organizations including ABC, The Associated Press, The Washington Monthly and MSNBC’s Countdown with Keith Olbermann reported the claim, with most attributing the allegations to the Times-Tribune story.
Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.
“I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.
He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton.
Slavoski said more than 20 non-security agents were interviewed Wednesday, from news media to ordinary citizens in attendance at the rally for the Republican vice presidential candidate held at the Riverfront Sports Complex. He said Singleton was the only one to say he heard someone yell “kill him.”
“We have yet to find someone to back up the story,” Slavoski said. “We had people all over and we have yet to find anyone who said they heard it.”
Hackett said he did not hear the remark.
Slavoski said Singleton was interviewed Wednesday and stood by his story but couldn’t give a description of the man because he didn’t see him he only heard him.
When contacted Wednesday afternoon, Singleton referred questions to Times-Tribune Metro Editor Jeff Sonderman. Sonderman said, “We stand by the story. The facts reported are true and that’s really all there is.”
Slavoski said the agents take such threats or comments seriously and immediately opened an investigation but after due diligence “as far as we’re concerned it’s closed unless someone comes forward.” He urged anyone with knowledge of the alleged incident to call him at 346-5781. “We’ll run at all leads,” he said.

[rich_one]

it would appear this certainly may be correct. as I went back and listened to the video again, what I thought was "Kill him", actually was "Treason!"... which is also silly... but not "kill him".

that said, listen to the video below. after McCain asks "Who is Barack Obama?"... what is that person yelling right aftewards?

YouTube - Obama Hatred At McCain-Palin Rallies: "Terrorist! Kill Him!"

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I still think Obama needed to explain that money trail that McCain hit him with in the debate... he didn't even touch on that, and the moderator did not press it... WTF???