Presidential Race 08 Election 2008

[clarke]

Originally Posted by rich_one

and McCain is killing himself with his own party... I mean dude... did he say, buy all of the bad loans at their current amounts, then, rewrite the loans to reflect the current, depressed value of the homes, so these people who made dumbass home buying decisions do not lose their homes? did I hear that right? coming from a REPUBLICAN???

I hate that entire idea, and it tells me this guy has no economic clue whatsoever. and I think I could hear the collective right all hit the floor at the same time when that came out his mouth, as they all fainted. I was truly shocked at that idea... do you guys think that is a good idea, on top of this bad-idea bailout?

Bad idea, but it will happen. McCain is trying to jump on it before the Dems do, but they were already heading in that direction. Terrible idea.

And when I lose my job in the next 6 months there will be nothing for me despite me making all the responsible choices and doing all the right things. Because we will have given it all away to the people who abused the system and made stupid choices and put us in this mess.

[clarke]

Originally Posted by cowboys_junkie

Obama has said he wants relief for home buyers as well.
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The fact that you would associate with an admitted domestic terrorist is inappropriate. The fact that you are a part of the same organzations with the same political leanings is enough.

Free market capitalists with political aspirations for the highest position in the free world do not associate with communists....at least, they never could before. The press would fry you and you would probably be blacklisted in the political and public world. But he is a Democrat, the chosen one, so he gets a free pass.

[clarke]

Originally Posted by eoeleven

AMEN brother AMEN

feel free to write in Mitt Romney and John Thune like I am pretty sure I am going to do.

And that is the same as voting for Obama. I cannot understand people who claim to be conservatives voting for anybody other than McCain. While he is not a true conservative, compared to Obama he is extremely conservative. While I understand a "statement" vote, voting in an election like this for anybody other than McCain is as good as voting for Obama. There are only 2 choices that matter. Write in votes and votes for a Libertarian are stupid. If every "conservative" voting for the Libertarian (Bob Barry?) or Ron Paull (Constitution Party?) voted Republican, we could probably win this party. Assinine!
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Originally Posted by cowboys_junkie

I don't think he's any more of a communist than is Hillary Clinton.
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It's the militantcy in the people around him that I am concerned with.

I could live with Obama more if they just got rid of Pelosi.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Pat him on the back, shake hands with him...big deal...he definitely did in the beginning, center stage, and patting somebody on their back is a sign of congrats or whatever....now you are just picking at pointless things.

As for the "kill him" statements, the way the media writes it, McCain tried to calm the crowd, and they booed him for it. So why are you blaming him?

there were two different events. they were yelling "kill him" at Palin's event. I'm sorry, dude... I believe that is just wrong.

as for McCain calming the crowd, that was a different event, and it was an extremely honorable thing for him to do. he told them "look... let's get one thing straight now... Barack Obama is a good man... you do not have to be afraid of him being the President..."

McCain clearly tried to send the message that look.... let's stop this fear politicking... this is not about terrorists or things you should fear... this is about the best policies, and lets keep it at that. unfortunately, it is a bit too little too late, in that that should have been the whole thing from the very beginning. but I personally appreciate McCain trying to do that, and I think it is a shame his audience did not appreciate him for doing that. McCain was the bigger man in that situation, imo. I think we can all agree and disagree on the issues, but I think the fear stuff just breeds hate and contempt among the general population... present company excepted.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Thank you...I watched it on Fox....I thought they were shaking hands when Brokaw told them they were blocking his teleprompter and they quickly moved away from each other.

actually, I did see that on CNN... but I did not realize they were shaking hands. I thought they were just standing next to each other. so if they were shaking hands, then that's great... my mistake and I stand corrected.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

He made Obama the chair of some "education" grant he had that handed out $50 million to help schools raise "radicals" (Ayers own term). You don't give that position to an enemy. Most of the money went to Acorn, which Obama represented, and a lot of that money came back to Obama. You don't see the connection because you don't want to....just like the media does not pursue the connection because they don't want the public too. If there really is nothing there, then the media would have vetted it and shown you. The fact that they refuse to address it speaks volumes. They don't even try to lie. Even the NY Times is now turning on him a little because its becoming so obvious. That screams corruption.

Obama is a socialist. He has terrorist connections. His friends are terrorists. His family in Kenya has terrorists in it. His pastor preaches hate to whites....should I believe that Obama never heard that shit in 20 years? Come on Rich, I am not naive. So he associates with terrorists, home grown and abroad, and he is a racist. In 4 years even the media will be singing this tune. But by then it will be too late.

look... clarke... I... most certainly... am NOT in any way implying that you are naive. dude... I am the novice in this arena... not you. me calling you naive in this arena would be like Ryan Leaf calling Peyton Manning a bust. so let's get that much clear right now.

I am not saying anything that is being said is wrong. it is just that, while I have been able to see the connections in some ways, I have not been able to find any reliable... imo... sources of information that conclusively links the direct accusations that have been made here... that's all. I just have not found a bipartisan piece anywhere. I mean, look, man... again... I listen to everything you guys tell me here. but at the same time, I want to have my own mind. and the fact is, while I listen and respect each and every one of you, I also have to keep in the back of my mind that there is certainly a lean to the right here, to say the least. and whenever I am reading information on sites that lean right... well, the "facts" lean right also. and when I read info from sites that lean left? you guessed it... the "facts" lean left. and I am left to try to make my own conclusions... that's all. not saying they are not impefect. hell, man... I might regret this position 4 years from now, and you all can "I told you so" me to death... and I'd accept it as lesson learned.

but right now, I personally have not bought the notion that Obama is a communist, or a terrorist, or terrorist friendly. while I am trying to watch these associations that have been tossed at me pretty rapid fire, I am also trying to stay grounded. and in trying to keep to the issues, until I can sort some of this other information out... I like Obama's side of the issues currently better than McCain's, and I completely dislike Sarah Palin. that's all... well... except, of course, the fact that I would be remiss to not at least admit some that the history of this moment does weigh on me some... and that's just being honest. but as I said earlier, that is not the biggest part of this. but sure... it is part of it.

sorry... I think I went on beyond the original point here... but just want you to know I most certainly could not possibly think you or anyone else in this conversation is naive. quite frankly, if I were a betting man, odds are, I am the naive one in this entire group, politically.
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Originally Posted by clarke

Bad idea, but it will happen. McCain is trying to jump on it before the Dems do, but they were already heading in that direction. Terrible idea.

And when I lose my job in the next 6 months there will be nothing for me despite me making all the responsible choices and doing all the right things. Because we will have given it all away to the people who abused the system and made stupid choices and put us in this mess.

well... the Dems may do that... I do not know. all I know right now is, Barack is not promising to do that crazy thing.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Free market capitalists with political aspirations for the highest position in the free world do not associate with communists....at least, they never could before. The press would fry you and you would probably be blacklisted in the political and public world. But he is a Democrat, the chosen one, so he gets a free pass.

I disagree with part of this. I agree completey what you say regarding the Democrat getting a free pass. and I do agree with what you say about free market capitalists and the backlash they would get associating with communists. the press would surley fry them... but let's be honest... their own party would throw them to the wolves. look at what is happening to McCain. he is not associated with any communist... but he has so far signed on to one socialist idea, and then offered up another, and he is losing his party.... the press ain't doing that. the GOP is realizing the nominated the wrong man, to represent their ideals, and even John McCain's supporters are getting angry with him.

and his attack dog simply is not helping matters.

so I do not think the frying would come from the press alone, is all I am saying. it'd come from other free market capitalists, with as much, if not more, vigor.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

And that is the same as voting for Obama. I cannot understand people who claim to be conservatives voting for anybody other than McCain. While he is not a true conservative, compared to Obama he is extremely conservative. While I understand a "statement" vote, voting in an election like this for anybody other than McCain is as good as voting for Obama. There are only 2 choices that matter. Write in votes and votes for a Libertarian are stupid. If every "conservative" voting for the Libertarian (Bob Barry?) or Ron Paull (Constitution Party?) voted Republican, we could probably win this party. Assinine!
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I could live with Obama more if they just got rid of Pelosi.

well, I certainly agree that Pelosi is a major, bitch, pain in the ass.

ahem.

[clarke]

Originally Posted by rich_one

look... clarke... I... most certainly... am NOT in any way implying that you are naive. dude... I am the novice in this arena... not you. me calling you naive in this arena would be like Ryan Leaf calling Peyton Manning a bust. so let's get that much clear right now.

I am not saying anything that is being said is wrong. it is just that, while I have been able to see the connections in some ways, I have not been able to find any reliable... imo... sources of information that conclusively links the direct accusations that have been made here... that's all. I just have not found a bipartisan piece anywhere. I mean, look, man... again... I listen to everything you guys tell me here. but at the same time, I want to have my own mind. and the fact is, while I listen and respect each and every one of you, I also have to keep in the back of my mind that there is certainly a lean to the right here, to say the least. and whenever I am reading information on sites that lean right... well, the "facts" lean right also. and when I read info from sites that lean left? you guessed it... the "facts" lean left. and I am left to try to make my own conclusions... that's all. not saying they are not impefect. hell, man... I might regret this position 4 years from now, and you all can "I told you so" me to death... and I'd accept it as lesson learned.

but right now, I personally have not bought the notion that Obama is a communist, or a terrorist, or terrorist friendly. while I am trying to watch these associations that have been tossed at me pretty rapid fire, I am also trying to stay grounded. and in trying to keep to the issues, until I can sort some of this other information out... I like Obama's side of the issues currently better than McCain's, and I completely dislike Sarah Palin. that's all... well... except, of course, the fact that I would be remiss to not at least admit some that the history of this moment does weigh on me some... and that's just being honest. but as I said earlier, that is not the biggest part of this. but sure... it is part of it.

sorry... I think I went on beyond the original point here... but just want you to know I most certainly could not possibly think you or anyone else in this conversation is naive. quite frankly, if I were a betting man, odds are, I am the naive one in this entire group, politically.
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well... the Dems may do that... I do not know. all I know right now is, Barack is not promising to do that crazy thing.

Not seen a bipartison piece anywhere? Rich, if there was nothing to it the Press would have confronted it head on. The fact that they refuse to attack it head on screams coverup to me. Because they don't want to be CBS (who lost ALL credibility when they made up stuff about Bush in the last election and got caught twice). They figure if they ignore it then nobody can say they were wrong.

And you are not going to find the Dems saying he has terrorist connections. The Dems WANT him elected. So they are not going to say "yea, he his friends and family are terrorists and he is a socialist and his wife hates America, and those friends that are not terrorists are racist pigs who hate the white man, but elect him anyway". So what are you expecting them to say?

Yet you discredit Fox News and Newsmax (conservative publication) for pointing these things out because they are motivated by the election? When are they supposed to point it out? They have actually been saying it since the 2004 election!

[clarke]

Originally Posted by rich_one

I disagree with part of this. I agree completey what you say regarding the Democrat getting a free pass. and I do agree with what you say about free market capitalists and the backlash they would get associating with communists. the press would surley fry them... but let's be honest... their own party would throw them to the wolves. look at what is happening to McCain. he is not associated with any communist... but he has so far signed on to one socialist idea, and then offered up another, and he is losing his party.... the press ain't doing that. the GOP is realizing the nominated the wrong man, to represent their ideals, and even John McCain's supporters are getting angry with him.

and his attack dog simply is not helping matters.

so I do not think the frying would come from the press alone, is all I am saying. it'd come from other free market capitalists, with as much, if not more, vigor.

You are right, McCain is losing the far right, if he ever had them. Not disagreeing with you. And he missed an opportunity when he did not attack the bailout with all the energy he could muster. That's because the GoP is in bed with the Bankers (and the Dems are in bed with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae). He should have been a real maverick and attacked the plan. He failed. That was probably his last opportunity.