Presidential Race 08 Election 2008

[eoeleven]

Originally Posted by cowboys_junkie

If anyone who wants to get rid of these benefits has a solution on how to take care of the kids of these adults "taking advantage" of the system, my ears are open.

Foster care is not an option, however, that I will entertain.

you tell me why that is my responsibility and I will try and come up with a solution

but my initial suggestion is military school

the kids have room and board, get a finer education than they would in public schools, learn discipline, character, job skills, and are gauranteed a career

in exchange we get a specialized pre trained armed forces to defend future generations

so it is not something for nothing it is a long term investment.

[cowboys_junkie]

Originally Posted by eoeleven

you tell me why that is my responsibility and I will try and come up with a solution

but my initial suggestion is military school

the kids have room and board, get a finer education than they would in public schools, learn discipline, character, job skills, and are gauranteed a career

in exchange we get a specialized pre trained armed forces to defend future generations

so it is not something for nothing it is a long term investment.

If you are a Christian as you have said you are that in and of itself makes it your responsibilty.

If you are not, it is our responsibility as a community to give our children the best foot forward we can. What is a nation with no hope, through their children, for the future?

[eoeleven]

Originally Posted by clarke

I look at it this way....the antenna guy went and got himself training in 1967 and a career....went along and was taking care of his family just fine....then sometime about 15 years or so later cable tv took over the country. Now he already paid his dues, paid for his training or education. But now he is unemployed. He did nothing wrong. He has paid Unemployment Tax for 15 years. So we give him unemployment. Now, all he is qualified to do is install antennas, which is not needed, or some unskilled trade. Now we can say tough, and let him make half of what he was making for the next 25 years until he retires or dies, or we can retrain him and help him make what he was.....and create more revenue. He will also be less likely to be unemployed and using that program again. Or welfare. It is an investment in our nation by helping him out. He wants to work. Has proved that he is willing too. Now we are helping him out when technology made him antiquated.

We will get paid back indirectly by the increased tax revenue he creates.

Additionally, those 2 children he has, aged 12 and 14 when it happened, no longer see their college dreams come crashing down when their daddy loses his job, because he is getting a new one. So there are 2 more kids that probably will not see welfare because they are getting educated. That is what the system is for.

it is his own responsibility to prepare for that day

just as pay phone owners had to prepare for cell phones

analog TV compaines had to prepare for digital only signals

if the guy did not see cable TV coming he is a knuckle head, and I do not understand why that is my problem?

I do not feel the need to baby sit the masses and I resent having to.

People should take care of themselves. I just do not see how it is our fault or responsibility if his failure to grasp the laws of supply and demand hurt him.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

That's what the systems are for. People who want to use them to sort of tie themselves over until they can do for themselves. The problem with the systems are the abuse stories we all know about. But I know, and you are living proof, that there are people out there that use them for what they are for. I don't mind a short term handout...or loan...or investment, which is what we are doing when people like you use the programs. These are investments in our people...with the hope that they get jobs which creates tax revenue that helps the next guy out. There has to be limits, and the limits need to be much shorter than 20 years, which is what welfare is now.....I mean, the fact that unemployment is 6 to 15 months, depending on Congress, and welfare is 20 years is appalling. One group of people has definitely paid into the systems, the other, maybe not. Certainly some, but not all.

I want a reduction in welfare programs, not an elimination, I don't mind extentions in unemployment if the market dictates it. I want those caught abusing the systems sent to jail for fraud. But why leave the people who pay the taxes starving and feed those that are not willing to do for themselves?

the way you have this worded, I can agree with completely. exact same page here.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

here is the simple solution...I will dumb it down....first, you take 10 mothers, train them to be day care workers while you put them in day care (I will even let the government pay for the day care), then you send 100 mothers to train to work, while those 10 mothers watch their kids in day care. Then you send those mothers out into the world so they can work, pay for their own damn day care, and pay taxes. And keep doing it over and over again. Simple. We pay for these people to make babies. Why not watch their kids while we train them to work. Supposedly their environment did not give them the opportunity at education or training. Well, here it is, now get a job.

well said again... dude... you are on a roll!

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by eoeleven

adapt and over come or be swept under ~ survival of the fittest

why is it my job to take care of his faults?

no body paid for me to learn anything

I have taken the US Army entrance physical three times in my life, twice for consideration for ROTC scholarships and once for a delayed enlistment program after blowing up the knee. Other than being found color blind (in only one of the three oddly) it was flying colors so I do not have a concept of that.

I also know that in times of need those requirments (along with the age and back ground ones) are loosened greatly. A recruiter that comes to our office daily for background checks says the marines are taking pretty much anything with a pulse and the navy is in worse shape.

He and his navy buddy almost have me talked into joining the National Gaurd, but niether seem to be able to figure out a way around an 18 year old snot telling me what to do. However if I was jobless I would be enlisted right now at 36 years old with a bad knee and about 20 extra pounds.

they are not taking anything. that is a lie, and I have proof. again, I am not going to delve into details here... but they have denied my nephew, who has been struggling to turn his life around, and wants to... you hear me? are you reading this??? HE WANTS TO, WANTS TO, WANTS TO... go to Iraq and fight for this country? and do you know why he has been turned away?

he keeps failing the exam, because he struggles with arithmatic. he has failed three times, all by something like 5 points. he can add, subtract, divide, and multiply. but for some reason, they have a nice amount of algebra on there, and he simply cannot wrap his head around it, try as he might. algebra? why does that way so heavily in the test he is taking? does this make sense to you? you have one less soldier... who WANTS to be a soldier... because he cannot tell you what the answer to 2a(4a + b) (7 x 3b) is? Does he need to know that to see enemy, point gun, shoot?

that seems silly to me.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by eoeleven

you tell me why that is my responsibility and I will try and come up with a solution

but my initial suggestion is military school

the kids have room and board, get a finer education than they would in public schools, learn discipline, character, job skills, and are gauranteed a career

in exchange we get a specialized pre trained armed forces to defend future generations

so it is not something for nothing it is a long term investment.

your talking about children who are not in situations they chose to be in, who have a right to grow up like any other kid in this country, and your saying, they should be trained as foot soldiers?

we're human beings, EO... not an ant colony. I can understand, albeit, not always agree with your lack of compassion for lazy adults... but helpless children? military school is your ONLY answer? sheesh, man. your pretty tough.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

I look at it this way....the antenna guy went and got himself training in 1967 and a career....went along and was taking care of his family just fine....then sometime about 15 years or so later cable tv took over the country. Now he already paid his dues, paid for his training or education. But now he is unemployed. He did nothing wrong. He has paid Unemployment Tax for 15 years. So we give him unemployment. Now, all he is qualified to do is install antennas, which is not needed, or some unskilled trade. Now we can say tough, and let him make half of what he was making for the next 25 years until he retires or dies, or we can retrain him and help him make what he was.....and create more revenue. He will also be less likely to be unemployed and using that program again. Or welfare. It is an investment in our nation by helping him out. He wants to work. Has proved that he is willing too. Now we are helping him out when technology made him antiquated.

We will get paid back indirectly by the increased tax revenue he creates.

Additionally, those 2 children he has, aged 12 and 14 when it happened, no longer see their college dreams come crashing down when their daddy loses his job, because he is getting a new one. So there are 2 more kids that probably will not see welfare because they are getting educated. That is what the system is for.

dude... you are unconscious at this point!

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by eoeleven

it is his own responsibility to prepare for that day

just as pay phone owners had to prepare for cell phones

analog TV compaines had to prepare for digital only signals

if the guy did not see cable TV coming he is a knuckle head, and I do not understand why that is my problem?

I do not feel the need to baby sit the masses and I resent having to.

People should take care of themselves. I just do not see how it is our fault or responsibility if his failure to grasp the laws of supply and demand hurt him.

because people are human, eo... shit happens, and not everyone in the US is as wise and sagely as you. and sometimes, people learn hard lessons, and need help getting back up... not a back turned to them, because they should have known better. and even for the wisest of the wise, sometimes, as the old saying goes, the best laid plans and all of that. you have been blessed with never needing this, but I have been blessed with it being there when I needed it. no offense, but I fear if you had been President, I don't know WHAT would have happened. while I was unemployed, the DID give me a training class, that I added to my resume, and after taking a secretary gig when the unemployment ran out, I got my chance to get back into my career.

[rich_one]

Originally Posted by clarke

Some people just are not as savvy as some others. We are talking about (obviously just a hypothetical example) a mass change in how people watched tv. You are too young to remember, but the majority of the normal everyday people never saw cable tv as something that would last....why pay for something you already get for free was most people's thoughts. I remember this, but barely. And then it happened almost overnight.

So no, you are wrong. And you are NOT paying for it....not directly. And you are still investing in him as an asset for your country. We are NOT going to be getting rid of welfare, get used to that. So why say screw him, its his fault (which it is not), let him go get a job at minimum wage because his skilled job is no longer available, so he has to take an unskilled job, and eventually end up on welfare or long stints on unemployment. Lets give him the ability to take care of himself. Training is a longterm solution. We are going to pay for him one way or another. Get used to it. Now lets limit it by giving him the best chance to survive.

I am talking about helping the guy that wants to help himself....not the guy that is making babies by the dozens and drinking his booze and smoking and collecting welfare while working odd jobs under the table or maybe doing illegal activities to get by....I am talking about the guy that works hard and just had a bad hand dealt to him.

Like the good book says...."God helps those who help themselves".

I... you... yeah... what Clarke said!